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tv   Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield  CNN  November 21, 2014 9:00am-10:01am PST

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heroes. it's sunday night, december 7th. john berman will be back next week, don't worry. ashleigh banfield with "legal view" starts right now. hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. welcome to "legal view." this could be it. the grand jury is meeting for the final time to decide whether to indict police officer darren wilson. and in the meantime, police in ferguson are bracing for possible violence there. prosecutors are expected to give
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law enforcement a 48-hour heads up before making the grand jury ruling public. this morning, attorney general eric holder urged protesters to remain calm no matter what happens. >> the most successful and enduring movements of change are those that adhere to nonaggression and nonviolence. so i ask all of those who seek to lend their voice to important causes and discussions and seek to elevate to do so in a way that expects the gravity of their subject matter. >> she lives in an apartment just blocks from where michael brown was shot dead. also, chris king, the editorial director for the st. louis american, the widely publicized newspaper. thank you for taking the time to come out in this cold weather to speak with me.
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patricia, if i could start with you, the news that the officer in question is now possibly going to step down from the police department, the news that psas are being recorded by football teams alike and by michael brown's father, is any of that changing the dynamic in the community where you stand? >> i don't think so. i think that officer wilson -- a lot of people are expecting him to resign. it would be very hard for mhim o come back and police this community regardless of the grand jury indictment. and the psas i think are a very good idea. we need a reminder about being peaceful and being calm at this time and hopefully i think it's going to work. >> and chris, to that end i know that you've had meetings with the police command in question about the preparation, the planning and then also the outreach that has been made not
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only from the police to the community. >> both the police and protesters have had months to prepare for this. the protesters have trained very deliberately in de-escalation. they know some people are going to come out that they haven't seen before and people that started problems before are going to come back and the question for the police is, will they also de-escalate or will they intimidate and make it worse? that's the challenge for the police command and front line officers. >> chris, you have said that the state of emergency just in the sound puts people on edge. patricia, do you get that sense as well, that just by nature of there being a state of emergency, which is kind of a pro forma in a situation like this, that it is making it worse? >> it is. especially when it was announced and there wasn't a particular instance that kicked it off. previously when the governor came in, we had some things
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going on, several nights of protesting when things got dicey. but to put us under a state of emergency now and there is not anything in particular going on, it's not helping the community and there almost seems to be an expectation of violence and that's not healthy for anyone involved in this. >> well, i want to thank both of you. chris king and patricia vines, thank you to the two of you. the ferguson grand jury started hearing that testimony, if you can believe it, it's been since august. they have a lot of evidence that they are pouring over and very difficult decisions to make. joining me to talk about the charges that officer wilson is facing, the evidence that may be needed to sway the grand jury one way or the other is cnn's
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legal analyst jeffrey toobin and joey jackson. first and foremost, let's make it clear what this grand jury is facing. there are four particular charges, plus an extra, i'll get to that later, that they have to mull over. the first is the most serious. that's first degree. i'd like to you take a crack at what needs to be presented in this case for them to get to that level. >> intentional murder. that's what first-degree murder is. it's not complicated. and all these charges, there's one issue, frankly, in the whole case, which is, was this an exercise of reasonable self-defense on the part of officer wilson. we can talk about the details but that's the core issue in this case. >> so those details apply to second degree but there's a level that is different. what would they have toed a mere to get there? >> it's the absence of deliberation. when you're intending on killing someone with the purpose of causing serious injury or a
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death, it's the absence of the deliberation. you'll go down the line, too, because they are looking at voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. it's proving under the influence of sudden passion and it relates to reckless behavior. when you constantly disregard the risk, the significance of those, also, relates to the degree to which they are punishable by. the higher it is, you get an a felony, which is the murder. and then "b" felony which is the second-degree and then the manslaughter, you get "b" felony and "c" felony. >> lawyers are so able to wrap your heads around this in an instant but there are mechanics and journalists and hairdressers who don't use these terms on a regular basis. and when you get these 12 people
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together, 9 of them have to make the same decision. can they really understand the thickness to the law as relates to the tremendous amount of evidence that has come their way in a short period of time, if you think about it. >> i don't think it's extremely complicated. >> you're a lawyer and a harvard grad. >> no. look. every single person in the united states was convicted or pled guilty under these legal rules. it's not all that -- >> and the microscope of the nation wasn't on them. >> i know. but also, that's why i said at the very beginning, the issue here is really simple. did officer wilson behave reasonably? >> there's that fifth odd one kind of hanging out there. it's armed criminal action. what would that mean and what do they have to figure out? >> there you go. using a dangerous weapon or
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instrument during another felony. the grand jury will be charged with justification and that relates to whether or not the shooting was justified. was the officer in imminent fear for his life? if they make that determination, no matter what the charges are, they issue a no true bill, which is there's no indictment. >> joey jackson and jeffrey toobin, stick around, if you will. the accusations that just keep mounting against bill cosby. a woman says she was groped and terrorized by cosby. she is joining a very long and growing list. you'll hear her details in a moment. all your make-up before bed. but do you really? [ female announcer ] neutrogena® makeup remover erases 99% of your most stubborn makeup with one towelette. can your makeup remover do that? [ female announcer ] neutrogena® makeup remover. and cialis for daily use
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hard to believe this number but no fewer than 15 women say they were sexually assaulted by bill cosby from 1967 all the way up to 204. they have come forward accusing the entertainer of groping to a full out rape. others have been publicly named. nearly all recount a shockingly similar experience. mr. cosby has remained silent. linda tells her story about working in a restaurant that was co-owned by bill cosby. >> one day he came to my station where i was waiting tables and
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told me i was pretty and offered me a ride home from the restaurant, which i accepted. we got into his rolls royce and he said, i'm going to drive out to the beach. >> what did you think when he said, i'm going to take a drive out to the beach? >> i was star struck. this is bill cosby. he was above reproach. there were no red flags at all. >> reporter: so you get to the beach and then what happens? >> okay. when we were pulling in to wherever it was that he was parking, he opened up a briefcase that was on his front seat and it was filled with different assorted pills, capsules and tablets. i don't remember colors. there were no prescription bottles. >> did he explain to you what these pills were? >> no. all he said is why don't you take a couple of these and it will help you relax.
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i was like, what? help me relax for what? >> did you end up taking any of the pills? >> no. >> then what happens? >> he starts grabbing at my chest and tries to fondle me and then he started to push himself on me, against the seat and against the door as he was groping me. i don't remember the conversation but i do know that that's when i panicked. i opened the door behind me and ran out of his car. and ran down the beach. and i had on a long hippy peasant skirt. i was running towards -- i guess towards the shoreline and my foot must have hit the butt tomorrow bottom of my skirt and i partially fell in the water so i was wet. he was coming after me trying to calm me down because i was making such a scene. i was crying and in a panic. i was crying and he said, i'll
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take you home, i'll take you home. at that point -- i was not raped but i was groped and terrorized. >> jim, what do you remember about what linda said at that time? >> i can literally remember being in the kitchen when my mom got the call and i can literally remember when she told the story. i mean, she came home and i felt leak i wanted to see the guy put in jail the rest of his life. he tried to push her to take pills, she kept refusing. all of a sudden, he lunged at her. he didn't just -- he lunged at her with his body weight. he's now pinned her against the door of the car and he's got his hands and i can't remember if he said they were under his shirt but grabbing her breasts and then getting his hand in the front under the skirt.
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at that point, she realized he was going to molest her. she was sexually assaulted. he was not stopping. >> reporter: linda says she saw cosby at the restaurant a few times after that but he never spoke to her again. >> did you consider going to the police? >> no. i was not raped. it never dawned on me and i never tried to go after him for it. >> we had a little family discussion, okay? and felt all of this -- linda, this guy -- this is bill cosby. he's got a public relations machine. you're a teenager, basically, and there's no proof you're going to just get destroyed. >> reporter: through his lawyers, cosby has consistently denied similar allegations but refused to elaborate in a recent interview with "the associated press". >> i have to ask about your name coming up in the news lately
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regarding this comedian. >> no. no. we don't answer that. >> i'm going to ask you, with the persona that people know about bill cosby, should they believe anything differently about -- >> there is no comment about that. >> okay. >> and i'll tell you why. >> okay. >> i think you were told i don't want to compromise your integrity. >> reporter: since 1969, linda has been troubled. she's been arrested more than a dozen times for drug-related charges and spent years in jail. a point cosby's team referenced. cosby's team says that miss traitz's criminal charges
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include criminal fraud and drug paraphernalia speaks for itself. consider the source. >> reporter: why should people believe you now? >> i never went after him for it. the drug -- my drug history really started way, way, way after that. >> i came out here because -- because i know my sister. >> linda says she has not used drugs in six years. she says she came forward after hearing barbara bowman's story alleging that cosby raped her. linda was upset by online comments by those who don't believe barbara bowman. >> when i started reading the comments and calling these women liars and money hungry and he
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could never do this, i didn't do it to go after bill cosby. i was doing it to -- through defense of these women. >> for linda's brother jim, it's personal. >> she's here for those women and i'm here for her. that's the bottom line. and i don't want to see this guy get away with it. god knows how many other times he's done it. i don't want him to get away with it and ridiculed by the huge cosby pr machine. it just isn't right. >> what do you want to say to bill cosby. >> you know, by repeatedly denying it and saying these women are liars is reassaulting them all over again. these women had courage to come forward. way more courage than i did. i'd like him to be held accountable to these women that he raped. >> that was a great interview. top to bottom, the fact that big brother is sitting beside her this many years later, give me your overall feel for the
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integrity and believability of both of them. >> i saw them credible. journalists found her because she responded online to barbara bowman's first interviews. so she was only commenting on it saying, i believe her. this happened. and then journalists found her and sought her out. so she didn't want to come forward. her brother was credible. and off camera, her little brother who is one year younger than she remembers it also and backs up her story. she told people at the time that it happened and she told her co-workers as well. >> one thing that wasn't on camera and i want people to know our conversation off camera, there's a long list. she's got theft, battery, impersonation in her background and that sounds ugly about a woman who lies. but what was this lying about? >> they were all drug-related. she had a drug problem and presented a fake i.d. to officers when they asked her her name. >> so that's her fraud and
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impersonation and deception and lying was using fake i.d. during -- >> yes. >> that is significant. >> it is. >> reaction since the interview. it's only aired a few hours ago. >> social media has lit up and i've been surprised, i would say the majority of people don't believe her. it's women and men across the board. women say on "new day's" facebook page, i don't believe her. she sounds like she's lying. and it looks like you're fighting to keep the lies straight. other person says, i feel like this is being orchestrated by someone who has paid these women. that's a common theme. she is not being paid. she has not gotten money from bill cosby, no journalists have given her any money. she's doing this because she's tired of the other women being ridiculed online. >> barbara bowman and many other women have come out and said we're doing this because we're sick of the villification.
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it's a story that just won't go away. other media outlets finding other alleged victims. >> yes. >> great interview. thank you. >> thank you. no charges, we should say, have ever been filed against bill cosby in any of these cases. but is that something that could change? with each new accuser, and they are piling on, is it possible that witness -- just witness evidence might be enough to actually bring about a charge? are cosby's problems far from over? my legal panel on that, next. let me get this straight... [ female voice ] yes? lactaid® is 100% real milk? right. real milk. but it won't cause me discomfort. exactly, because it's milk without the lactose. and it tastes? it's real milk! come on, would i lie about this? [ female announcer ] lactaid. 100% real milk. no discomfort. come on, would i lie about this? i have a cold with terrible chest congestion. better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn't treat chest congestion. really? new alka-seltzer plus day powder rushes relief
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despite the long and growing list of women that have accused bill cosby of assault, he has never been charged with a crime and that's something that his attorneys are reminding everyone about ever time an accuser comes forward. the closest that cosby gave to merit was settling a lawsuit with andrea constantand. if the case had gone to trial, her attorney says that they had 13 lined up to testify. he is accused of california, colorado, pennsylvania, new york
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and new jersey. way want to bring in paul callan and defense attorney joey jackson. so here's where i started to wonder. if you have that many people who could provide witness testimony, absence the forensics, absence anything else in this case, it's witness against witness, is there any way that the statute of limitations would allow some kind of prosecution to come forward? >> we've been working on this and joey has a list of every statute in the country. but here's the overview on it. it used to be in most states 5 to 7 years for rape you have to bring the case or you lose your right to bring it. but then when all of these cases evolved involving children and abuse of children. >> and memories that were repressed. >> and dna came along and all of a sudden we realized there may be somebody sitting in prison linked to an old rape, there's
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one rule that remained in place and that is this. whatever the statute was when the rape occurred initially, if that had expired when the law was changed, you don't get the benefit of the long statute. >> basically what you're saying is, let's say man rapes woman in '72. >> yes. >> that man would be grandfathered and protected by the '72 law? >> yes. because by the time it was amended to make it longer, it was expired. >> we have a long line of allegations from '67, my birthday, to 2004. >> even if the statute of limitations is met and you can move forward, the question becomes, what do you need to prove and how do you prove it? and now you would have the absence of physical evidence. when you have physical evidence in terms of dna, it's one thing because now this corroboration, you could go to show, how did it get there? when you don't have that, the issue becomes even if you meet
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the statute, what can do you? so it's not a he said/she said. you look to people that you spoke to about this. we call it recent outcry testimony. >> you mean like a big brother and a little brother that spoke on "new day" this morning? >> there you go. you go to someone and say, what should i do? i can't believe it. i'm tired of holding this in. and those witnesses are very compelling in front of the jury. the second thing, of course, not only the victim testimony but witnesses who address the fact that women don't feel comfortable, necessarily, at the outset moving forward, coming forward for a variety of reasons, not related to fabrication, not relating to the fact that we're just making it up as we go along. >> it's called mortifying. >> absolutely. >> i only have a minute left and this is important. when you get to trial you'll hear both sides doing motions to suppress. and not bring in additional
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witnesses on prior bad acts or alleged bad acts. but when you can establish a pattern, i don't know, let's say, like using a drug to effectuate the rape, could you get those other women? >> it depends on the state. new york has a rule where if there's a pattern and you follow the same pattern, you always use a certain drug to induce the woman to comply with your demands, that might be the beginning of pattern and then you could introduce the prior cases. so it's a state by state basis. >> there's also a distinction between propensity evidence that is inadmissible, meaning, if you did it last time, you can't use it this time. and then purposes of motive and intent and that depends on the judge and how you argue its admissibility. >> i think of phil spector and
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the parade of women that came up and said that happened to me, too. >> it's compelling for the jury. >> i don't think this is over. >> that's why you got a better score than me on the bar exam. >> paul callan and joey jackson, thank you, as always. another big story, immigration as president obama gets ready to change how the united states deals with people who came here illegally. we're going to go live to las vegas where he's set to speak more about this plan. and families affected by the loss speak out. >> i fear that at any point in time immigration can come knock on my door and take my parents with them and leave us here.
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...the getaway vehicle! for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this. for those members of congress who question the wisdom of me acting where congress has failed, i have one answer. pass a bill. >> well, plenty of republicans question the president's authority to revamp the immigration rules and the wisdom of sidestepping congress but there is also reaction like this. take a look. [cheers and applause ] the president laid out reforms that his legal team decided are within his powers of discretion
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when it comes to enforcing the existing laws. chief among the changes, allowing undocumented parents of children who were born in this country to stay here and work here worry-free, at least for three years at a time. president obama will be visiting the same las vegas high school where he called on congress for immigration reform in 2013. suzanne malveaux went there to meet some of the people behind the policies. >> reporter: to the nearly 40 million tourists who visit the strip each year, behind the bright lights, a community of undocumented workers is quietly toiling away. doing menial jobs to protect their families under the constant fear that they will be torn apart. >> she says she thinks about it every day. it's one of those things that
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people who are undocumented think about every day and it's a fear you have to live with. >> lore ina lives with that fea. a mother of three, she and her husband clean homes and nightclub bar nightclub bathrooms to support their children. the youngest, louise, was born in the united states but lorena could be deported at any time. children brought to the u.s. by their parents have a two-year reprieve by removal. she wants obama's order to do the same for her parents. >> i fear that at any point in time immigration can come knock on my door and take my parents with them and leave us here destroying my family.
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>> reporter: she also wants a path to citizenship. she's an "a" student and wants to join the national guard. >> i want to help the country that i was raised in but, i mean, it's something that i couldn't do. >> this is what i weak up to. >> reporter: but 25-year-old jose doesn't face those obstacles. he was born in the u.s. after his parents, seeking fertility treatment across the border, entered illegally. >> the people who don't have papers and don't have it. >> reporter: jose's father has spent nearly 30 years in the u.s. working at mcdonald's, in fruit fields, a shoe factory and in construction. his wife, at a casino before recently dying of a stroke. >> she was very active with other mothers.
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>> reporter: having just lost his mom, jose is worried he could lose his father, too, if his dad is deported. he believes his dad has earned his right to stay and has made immigration reform his passion. >> if you don't fight for what is right, somebody else will do it for you. >> reporter: a sentiment shared by lorena as well. >> i believe i'm worth as much as anybody who is born here. >> i'm curious to what the president said last night and the details of the executive order and how it affects those people that you just introduced us to. >> reporter: that's a great question, ashleigh. because for both of these families, it's really good news for them. first, you saw jose there. his dad has been in the united states for almost 30 years now. he's worked various jobs and wants to get back to work. he doesn't have a criminal background so he's very much eligible to stay another three
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years if he applies. lorena's mom also is safe. she said she wants to do all of those things to get it right with the law, as obama put it last night. she's very excited about the possibility. what it doesn't do, however, is actually satisfactory her daughter, the 18-year-old one, who desperately wants to be a u.s. citizen, she doesn't see that path yet and wants to have better, greater opportunities here in the country. and then finally, ashleigh, the one thing that really struck me is the sense of fear and anxiety among the families because it's temporary. it's an executive order. the whole thing could change and be undone with with another president. it's not likely but there's an aspect of day-by-day and year-by-year that is unsettling to them. but overall temporary relief
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that their parents will not be snatched away, if you will. they are very excited about listening to the president, having him come and visit here and also hearing what he has put forward last night. >> and we'll see if congress does what the president suggested and that is pass a bill which would not make it temporary. suzanne malveaux, so great to see the effect that it matters to those the most. incidentally, while the republicans in congress decide how to answer what they consider a presidential power grab on the act of obama, they have filed a lawsuit. only it's over obamacare. yep. obamacare. not immigration. this obamacare lawsuit claims that the treasury and the health and human services departments overstepped their bounds in making after-the-fact changes to the affordable care act. there's a lot more details in it than that but under speaker john boehner, the house has passed
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over 40 outright repeals of that act but not one of them was able to go anywhere. coming up, if you live in missouri, get ready for very unique television in the way of football. these guys are not talking football. they are talking peace and calm. they are appealing to the community to be safe and be careful and be peaceful in the wake of whatever the grand jury there decides. the st. louis rams and more appealing to the public. you'll hear it next.
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i have said it every day this week. today could be the day, talking about the next major part of the tragic police shooting case that put ferguson, missouri, on every american's radar. a grand jury is hearing the evidence and it's time they made
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a decision on whether or not charges should be filed against the shot and killed 18-year-old michael brown over the summer. but now there's something else, too. this man, the policeman, darren wilson, we're told now that he is in talks with the city, discussing terms of a possible resignation from the police force. stephanie elam is live in ferguson. i want to ask you about the protests last night. there are ongoing protests but they were rough last night, weren't they? >> reporter: right. there's protests every night, ashleigh. and last night, three people were arrested outside of the ferguson police station, blocking the streets, from what we can gather, it looks like they wanted to make sure their presence was known to the police to make sure they came out and interacted with them. three people arrested but all in all, considering what has been going on since we saw the clashes early on, nothing like that, nothing of that sort.
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the presence is known every night despite the fact that it's really cold and they are out here protestsing. >> it's something to see that video. people were calm and just waiting for things to happen. that's a decision by the grand jury. and as we await that decision, stephanie, the st. louis rams as well as michael brown senior and other community leaders have recorded some p recorded some public service announcements. >> reporter: well, when you take a look at these psas, and they are done from different members of the community, the mayor of st. louis, an olympian from here as well as well as the st. louis rams speaking and the father of mike brown as well. what is interesting, when you look at these psas, no one,
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except mike brown sr. mentions mike brown except for his father. it doesn't even mention the reason they are having these psas is because of the tension in the community and there is tension. it's not just here in ferguson. it's in clayton and parts of st. louis. there's definitely some tension still here, ashleigh. >> it's interesting to see those. hopefully they will make a difference and people will listen. it's about safety and security. stephanie, keep warm and thank you for doing this really tough job. you've been doing a great job. stephanie elam reporting live from ferguson. so you have probably heard the term, you could have died a ham sandwich. do you think it's really hard to get an indictment?
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why have we been waiting for months and months and months for this particular decision? you're going to hear about the some of the mechanics and may you be surprised to find out d of standard they are dealing with, how easy or tough it is and how one-sided it can really be in there. back after this. are you on medicare? do you have the coverage you need? open enrollment ends december 7th. don't put it off 'til later. now's the time to get on a path that could be right for you... with unitedhealthcare medicare solutions. call today to learn about the kinds of coverage we offer, including aarp medicarecomplete plans insured through unitedhealthcare. these medicare advantage plans can combine parts a and b, your hospital and doctor coverage... with part d prescription drug coverage, and extra benefits... all in one complete plan... for a low monthly premium, or in some areas no plan premium at all.
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or swallowing. if you have any of these symptoms, stop taking farxiga and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. tell your doctor right away if you have blood or red color in your urine or pain while you urinate. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including dehydration, genital yeast infections in women and men, low blood sugar,kidney problems, and increased bad cholesterol. common side effects include urinary tract infections, changes in urination, and runny nose. ♪do the walk of life ♪yeah, you do the walk of life need to lower your blood sugar? ask your doctor about farxiga and visit our website to learn how you may be able to get every month free. in ferguson, missouri, this is the timeline that we're watching. if and when the grand jury
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indicts officer wilson, it will be 48 hours before the public announcement is made. that means we wouldn't know until sunday what the details are. mark o'mara and paul callan is here. mark defended george zimmerman in the trayvon martin case. it sure seems long, if you can indict a ham sandwich, here we are three months plus. paul callan, you don't think that's a long time but mark o'mara, you do. why? >> if you're asking me -- >> go ahead, mark. >> well, you know, it's unique that we take this much time in most cases but this is sort of a super grand jury that mccullough has created by making a decision that he's going to give them every shred of evidence that he can in order to insulated whatever the decision is of the grand jury and i really like the idea that we're going to get a view of the transcripts to find out whether or not his desires in this case of indicting or not
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indicting a ham sandwich showed up. i have a feeling he's going to insulated himself as well. >> so let me ask you this. is this grand jury in ferguson different than others? there are numbers that differ. >> this differs from state to state and i looked at the top cop cases that have been prosecuted in new york, three to four months is the average time that it takes to present. however, is this grand jury different? yes, it is. only 12 people on it. in a lot of states, new york, for instance, has 23. obama a majority are required to vote in favor of an indictment. 9 of 12. so it is different. >> mark, let me ask you about the result. if -- if the result is not to anyone's liking, is there ever a
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circumstance where you can have another crack at the grand jury, the prosecutor saying, i think i can do better with another panel? >> technically under the law, yes. it's not a double jeopardy argument. if they come up with new evidence that changes the position, then they can, in fact, reconvene a new grand jury and in some states the prosecutor can even after a grand jury decision move forward with prosecution. so it's not an end of it all but practically i think it will be. >> the other thing, they are trying to find probable cause here. what's the standard that they have to meet? is it the balance test in the preponderance of the evidence? >> yes. it's called more likely than not that a crime was committed. and if they are 50/50 on it, half say yes, half say no, it's 50/50, no true bill. you have to tip the scales ever so slightly in favor of a crime having been committed. >> but it's not like the burden -- >> it's not like beyond a
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reasonable doubt, which is a heavy burden of proof. >> i think it's different because the prosecutor is not supposed to bring a case that they don't think is going to go to trial. even beyond what he has to prove, if he doesn't think he can win a trial, he's not supposed to prosecute the case. >> have a great weekend. "wolf" starts right after this quick break. can't wait to get the next big thing?
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hello. i'm wolf blitzer. it's 1:00 prk m. washington, 7:00 p.m. in paris, 3:00 a.m. on saturday in tokyo. wherever you're watching from around the world, thank you for joining us. up first, house republicans make good on their promise to sue the president of the united states over health care reform. the house speaker john boehner says the suit challenges the president's so-called unilateral actions on health care and accuses the president of abusing his executive authority. john boehner said this and i'm quoting. "time after time the president has chosen to ignore the will of the american people and rewrite federal law on

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